On today’s episode of Beyond the Boxx, Sherri Langburt is joined by two influencers whose respective journeys she’s followed from the beginning. Their creativity, ambition and moxie are awe inspiring. Listen in as Diana Elizabeth and Alyssa Amorsso share their insights from the influencer perspective as we head into a new decade of influencer marketing.

Diana Elizabeth Steffen is a former journalist, a lifestyle blogger and small business owner. She holds a B.A. in journalism from The University of Arizona and has served as a red-carpet reporter and ghostwriter for E! and a reporter for The Arizona Republic. In 2006 she opened her graphic design boutique, Silver Spoon Studio, and went on to launch Diana Elizabeth Photography. She continues to exercise her journalism skills via her blog, www.dianaelizabethblog.com – where she covers lifestyle, photography, travel and other interests, including life as an entrepreneur, with camera in hand.

Alyssa Amoroso is the force behind the influential brand, Publyssity, which spans across multiple digital verticals – Publyssity.com (blog), ShopPublyssity.com (merchandise), The Publyssity Podcast, and @Publyssity on Instagram. She is a standout voice in the multifaceted and ever-changing millennial space.

Aside from being a NYC-based social influencer and public figure, Alyssa is a former public relations, marketing and communications professional. Her strong professional background shines through her work, whether it be content creation, verbal communications or ideating.

Diana Elizabeth & Alyssa Amoroso Interview

Sherri Langburt: Hi everyone. Today I’m joined by two influencers who’s respective journeys I have followed from their starts. Their creativity, ambition and moxie are awe-inspiring. I am pleased to have Diana Elizabeth and Alyssa Amorosa here who will be sharing their insights from the influencer marketing perspective. Hi ladies.

Diana Elizabeth: Hi.

Alyssa Amoroso: Hi. How are you?

Sherri Langburt: We’re good, I’m good. Thank you both for joining.

Diana Elizabeth: Happy to be here. Thanks for the invitation.

Sherri Langburt: Yeah, of course. You know, obviously we’re here today or hitting up a new year, a new decade and wanted to mix things up by, really looking toward influencers that could give us their perspective. And you two are my two favorites. So I wanted to have you both join us. So I’ll start with you. Alyssa. You know, I have watched your career blossom and I believe you started out in the PR world.

What inspired Publyssity and how did you transition from full time employee to independent influencer?

Alyssa Amoroso: Totally. Thank you so much for saying that. I know, I feel like we used to email like five years ago, if not more. It’s, that’s so crazy. The industry takes people, but I would say I’m just like the gist of everything. I started blogging a little bit in college, absolutely loved it. I had a different blog every day, like I would do one on Blogspot, one on Tumblr, wherever.

At that time Twitter was kind of thing. So I would use Twitter as a means to promote my blog and I was kind of just like doing it for fun. And my senior project in school, I was a public relations like marketing media studies major. I made a website, called Alyssa PR actually as my first blog and I started promoting that and I started getting a little bit of traction, but I basically got a job working in PR two days after graduation.

So I graduated on a Friday, started work on a Monday, and I got right into PR and I was just knees deep with that, that I really didn’t have time to focus on blogging. So I kind of just put it to the wayside. And then it wasn’t until I was about two years, three years into my PR career where I really started to seeing influencers taking off in a different way.

They weren’t just girls with blogs, they were girls now on Instagram. We were paying them a lot of money. They were getting amazing brand deals and great recognition in the industry. And I think it was around 2016, 2015, where I decided, I work in PR, I have these tools, I’ve done this before. I love doing this. I kind of need a hobby. So I’m going to start a blog again. And I just decided at that moment, you know what I’m not going to care what people say about me.

I’m not going to care what people think about me. I’m just going to put myself out there and do what I please and talk about things that I love. So Publyssity was born, I launched my brand, it is called publicity. It’s been called that from the very beginning, it is a play on word with my name, Alyssa, and obviously the word publicity.

So it’s spelled P-U-B-L-Y-S-S-I-T-Y since Lys is my nickname. And yeah, so Publyssity was born and now it’s about four years later and I’m running my brands full time. I took that transition out of PR and I’m really just kind of going for it.

What is the main focus of Publyssity in terms of your channel?

Alyssa Amoroso: Totally. So my, my goal at the beginning when I first set out to do this was to really talk about everything. I didn’t want to pigeonhole myself into one specific area. I would say when you look at my page at a first glance you would think fashion just by the way things look. But when you read my captions and you view my stories and you consume my content, it’s much more a lifestyle. I love to post travel content.

I actually love posting travel guides. I think it’s so fun cause it’s such a passion of mine. I post just things that I do daily working from home. I talk about my career a lot. I talk about the recipes that I’m cooking a lot and the stories talk about dressing for my body type and, just a little bit of everything. I really don’t limit myself because I really just want it to be an outlet that kind of showcases everything I love. And I love a little bit of everything. I’m not just strictly a beauty girl or fashion girl.

Sherri Langburt: That. Thank you for that insight in the background and I think that’s kind of how Diana Elizabeth’s, content flourishes is really lifestyle in all different categories. Diana, I feel like you might’ve been an award-winning a pageant winning TV entertainment host.

Diana, could you just tell us your background and how you broke out into being an influencer?

Diana Elizabeth: Yeah, so I majored in journalism in college and I did do pageants. So I have a couple titles under my belt. I did the Miss America, since then to win scholarship money for college and also did some part-time modeling on the side. And so, once I graduated the University of Arizona with a BA in journalism, I moved to LA and I worked in the television industry.

So I got to be a PA, like the bottom of the totem pole of course, and you got to pay your dues. And then I ended up landing a job as a red carpet reporter for E Online. And I was pretty much like a ghost writer for on air talent. I mean there’s so many events in LA that you can’t go to all of them, so you kind of have to have, an assistant.

So I was an assistant at 21 years old and so excited to be interviewing Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie and all that stuff.

Like you know, Simple Life and fun shows that came out. And I did that for about a year and I have like a love hate relationship with LA. Like I love so much about it, but it was really difficult for me as a young adult trying to make it in an industry that is always changing and shows get canceled.

Positions get changed. So I decided to take a job at the Arizona Republic, like I’m originally from Northern California, but I’d never thought I would move back to Arizona after college. But I did and I pretty much begged for the job because they offered it to me and I was like, no, I don’t want to go back. And then I just kind of looked at life and I was like, you know what?

I think quality of life might be really good in Phoenix and this might be an opportunity for me to get ahead instead of feeling like I’m trying so hard to dig myself out of a hole and trying to make it in LA. And it was just like, moving is temporary anyway, so I moved to LA.

I was a writer for the Arizona Public and worked as a stylist. So I still kind of did the glamorous part of journalism. I pulled clothing, put outfits together, write about it. And after that I just kind of decided I honestly wanted to make more money. And they were like, well, do you want to write about schools are cops? And I’m like, eh, we don’t really want that. It’s not really like kind of my thing. Like I want it, entertainment, beauty, fashion and I want to move to New York because I was too scared and too young that I was like one of my regrets.

And like New York, like living my life before I settled down. I think it’s so awesome, but like I just didn’t have that in me yet. So I’m like, okay, I can do the fun stuff in Phoenix while I can. And I decided, you know, I’m even going to marketing. Like I think that’s a strategy that I just want to explore.

I want to see how good I can be at this.

And as I moved into a corporate company, like give me a lot of flexibility and even paid for me to better my graphic design skills that I already had. I picked up a camera. I became a, my side hustle became photography and I worked in marketing for five years as a lead graphic designer and branding. Did all the marketing campaigns for this company.

And as my side hustle grew, I, you know what happens when your side hustle grows and you really love it. You start to think like, I think I want to, I want to jump ship. And my fifth year of being in corporate, I have your yearly review and instead of getting a raise because I was very aggressive with my raises. I’m kind of just one of those people that I like to negotiate. I said, “I don’t want a raise. I actually want everything Friday off.”

Sherri Langburt: Wow.

Diana Elizabeth: “And I want to keep my salary.” And they were kind of like, “What? No!” Like nobody did that yet. Like this wasn’t remote working wasn’t very popular yet. This was 10 years ago. And I’m like, yeah. And so they were like, well have you work like four tens and I’m thinking, no way. Like I can’t, I can’t just do that, which is funny because now I do.

But they were like, okay. And they let me have every Friday off. And on those Fridays I did graphic design, I took my photography clients, I photograph weddings on the weekend and I really built my side hustle to a point where I was able to leave corporate and corporate America and decide I was going to give myself a full year and see if I could financially make it and be happy. And if I didn’t I could always go back to corporate. I mean I had a degree, I could, but not a big deal. I just wanted to see if I could actually do and it’s been 10 years.

Sherri Langburt: That’s amazing. Well, I know you and I talk about side hustles a lot, so that’s a big topic for later. But you know, you brought up the New York City dream. I and Alyssa and I, kind of on the East Coast, but it sounds like Arizona living there has played a lot, into your story.

Diana, can you tell us how Southwest living has shaped the content and the stories you create?

Diana Elizabeth: Yeah. You know what’s funny is I think the Southwest doesn’t supply for me the backdrop for it, which is funny because it’s very desert and I’m such a gardener. So I’ve kind of made my house, my little backdrop oasis. But the Southwest, being in Phoenix in general, it’s such a big city and there are so many transients here.

I mean I don’t even call them transients because I don’t feel like anyone really leaves. We’re just kind of coming in from all different places and loving the city with an entrepreneurial spirit. And with that spirit, I think it’s motivated me to collaborate, to be more bold here and kind of pursue things because I feel the hustle.

Like, it’s here in Phoenix without being, as large as New York or Los Angeles. I love that the entrepreneurial spirit here that we help one another. And so I think that has helped me create content and motivation and the stories and maybe even have more of a home life here because I mean I would love to have a beach again and I would love all the things. But you know, it’s also has a little suburban feel too that I can share those passions of my gardening and my home.

Sherri Langburt: Yeah, you would think that you live near a beach and that that garden is, so you’re doing a great job making it look that way. And I guess the flip side is the New York City life, Alyssa, which I’m just amazed like there is, as Diana says, so much competition and particularly now with Instagram and influencers.

Alyssa, how do you differentiate yourself so well?

Alyssa Amoroso: Oh yeah. I mean there for sure is a big, big saturated influencer market here in New York City. That said, I think there’s so much more opportunity for us. Like I, I myself have considered potentially relocating to LA or something. But then I just think about all of the opportunities that I wouldn’t get that I do happen to get in New York because of my network.

And you know, a lot of the events take place here. We have fashion week, all of these things. So it’s kind of a double edged sword. But I mean just differentiating yourself. I’ve always just from the beginning just done what I like and I’m a big believer that you are yourself. Even if people maybe don’t get the best impression of you when they first meet you or even if they kind of don’t like you.

If you just keep remaining true to yourself over time, you will slowly prove those people wrong or earn respect from new people.

Alyssa Amoroso: So I’ve always just kind of done my thing and I try not to do too much of the comparison game. I know it eats a lot of influencers up. We’re constantly looking at other influencers saying, why did they get that job and I didn’t, or how come they got chosen for that event and I didn’t? And it’s really something that you do have to think about because from an analytical business standpoint, you do have to analyze, the kind of content that you’re posting, the amount of likes that you’re getting, how well things are resonating with people.

But, you really just have to, I think be authentic and… your followers they get to know your personality. Like I think Instagram stories is a great tool and having my own podcast has been. a really great tool for me because I feel like my followers that listens to my podcast, they know me, they know my family, they get my personality and it’s actually made us much closer. So it becomes more of a quality over quantity type of situation.

So really sticking out in a saturated market, there’s no golden ticket. There’s nothing that’s going to make you stand out more than others.

Some people get lucky, some people work harder. I just think it’s a little bit of luck and a lot of hard work.

Sherri Langburt: Definitely a lot of hard work because I started out like both of you and I just flipped it to go onto the business side of things. So very impressive and thank you. And to that point, some things that we also have in common. I mean Alyssa your podcast, which we’ll get into, but Diana, I wrote diaries from the time I think I was in fourth grade all the way til 10th grade and I, it’s scary to read. Some of them. I have to be honest. But I know you’ve written, it’s really like disturbing, but you’ve written so many diaries.

Do you think chronically your life as a young girl prepared you for this kind of chronically your life today?

Diana Elizabeth: I would have never guessed that I would be doing what I’m doing today. Like you know, this job’s never existed and you wouldn’t read public diaries, which I’m doing now. I’m finally opening them up and sharing those tidbits. Some of them horrified would add, but I think it’s, yeah, it definitely did.

Isn’t it funny? How the things that you realize you enjoyed as a child to a young adult to everything. It just builds into what you enjoy now. It’s the evolution of a creative person I believe. Or just a person in general.

We pick up hobbies and if you let them flow you can kind of see what happens. Like, I got from photography and marketing into blogging with words. I mean I’m doing all the things that I have picked up along the way and enjoyed and just found ways to integrate it. And not everything that you enjoy has to be a career either.

Like some things I think you can protect or will burn you out if you make it into a job. I am a writer, I’m a writer that’s happened to have a blog and I’m a blogger who happened to just grow a little bit of an influence online. I’m like the accidental influencer.

I just pursued my passions and somehow found a way to get paid for it and absolutely love every day that I am able to do this job.

Sherri Langburt: I love that tagline. You should call yourself the accidental influencer,

I hear what you’re saying because my dream coming out of college was to be a writer. There were no writing jobs in Montreal because I didn’t have strong enough French skills. So I started writing tech manuals and that’s how I got into the software and then I was building systems and from systems I was like, this is boring. So I’m going to switch onto the marketing and business side. So it’s the same thing, you just kind of.

But, the world of opportunities today, as Alyssa you said with people or Diana, you said it people working remote, it didn’t exist back then. So it’s amazing.

Diana Elizabeth: I was a photographer and graphic designer. And things, sometimes markets get saturated, like the photography market got really saturated and that’s when I just kind of looked around and was like, well, what else can I do? So I tried to keep that entrepreneurial spirit. And if I, I love being a blogger and influencer, but there might be a time where this market’s going to shift and I’m going to shift with it and I’m happy to, because all I want to do is use these talents that I’ve worked on. And these passions and just kind of go with the markets and I’m very flexible with whatever happens.

Sherri Langburt: Yeah, it’s funny, I have, people say to me, “Oh my God, Sherri you work so much, you work so much.” But to me, my work, this is my creative passion. I don’t feel like I’m working when I’m doing what I’m doing and I, I’m assuming you both don’t either. Like I love what I’m doing, so it’s creative for me, it’s just another outlet. Speaking of collaborations, Alyssa, I’m going to ask you a question first.

What is, your all time favorite collaboration, if you could pick one and what made it so special?

Alyssa Amoroso: It’s hard to say, one that I always like default to, just because it was so unique was a, it wasn’t even a paid partnership, it was a rental car exchange where basically for four consecutive weeks I partnered with the rental car company. And they gave me a car every weekend to drive out to the Hamptons because I had a rental house that summer in the Hamptons and I was getting crazy cars like a convertible and fun Jeeps.

And I just felt at that moment because I didn’t have the same following I have now. I probably had under 100,000 followers, maybe around 50 or so. And I remember just like driving out to the Hamptons and my convertible with my window down just thinking like, okay, this is what all the hard work has paid off. And I just felt very accomplished in that moment and for some reason, and that just sticks out in my head because it was just such a kind of like, “Hey I kind of maybe might be able to do this thing,” moment for me.

But, and also I think it was a successful partnership for a different reason because it was a four week program consecutively. My followers knew which rental car company I was partnering with. If they needed a rental car that brand would be top of mind. And I felt like I still feel like brands and he could take this approach way more often where they are consecutively partnering with influencers on a regular basis. It’s to drive brand awareness. And I felt like it really did that. So not only was it fun for me, I felt like it was very successful.

Sherri Langburt: That is amazing. I just can envision it. So Diana, how about you?

Diana Elizabeth: Oh, I have like a top three. So I was thinking about this. And, yeah there’s moments I’ll get emails and I will literally cry in front of my desk because I’m just like, “this brand wants to work with me. Are you kidding me? I’ve been a customer forever.” And so I, I was just thinking about the latest ones that I really like just blew me away. And I have to say it was my college.

Sherri Langburt: Oh wow. Wow.

Diana Elizabeth: I am a huge college girl. I mean I’m beyond college. Like, I mean I graduated long time ago, right. But, like college was such a huge part of my life because I felt like that’s where I grew the most into who I am today. And I mean I keep growing of course. But that was a pivotal moment in my life was college.

So when my university, all of a sudden I saw, the alumni association’s been following me on Instagram and I was like, “Is this by accident? What is happening?” And then I got a phone call and they invited me to cover homecoming as an influencer. And I just, was floored, like it was just so flattering. I love my college so much. I love all the experiences they have given me.

And for them to just come back and be like, we know who you are and we know, like it just was so amazing. And plus the funny part was I had it on my bio, how college was the best years of my life. Can I have the diary entries to prove it?

And they saw that. It was just so organic and it was just so natural. And when I went down there and covered it and I got to go to all the events and like pretend that I was in college again. I joke, I was like, “You guys, I’m getting paid to go back to college. Like this is crazy.” So it was just an amazing event for me. Just, nostalgia, the ties and just like it. I mean it’s my university that I just love so much and it was just a great opportunity for me to feel valued by some, an organization that I absolutely love.

Sherri Langburt: Yeah, it’s you, you’re very lucky as again, I’m Canadian so we don’t necessarily, or back in the day have that amazing college experience because it’s like we go local. But you know, I could definitely envision what that means to someone just because my camp from growing up has been calling me to work with them. So that’s been just more meaningful than so much of the things that I, like just being able to be like working with something like an environment that meant so much to you and grow with them and giving back is great.

Diana Elizabeth: And then since then it’s like I’ve created this bond with, the association and they interviewed me for things. I’m able to really like go send my new year’s resolution is to work closely with my alumni association. And so this has really bridged that gap.

Sherri Langburt: Well that brings up a good point. I’m wondering, and Alyssa you brought up, and this is off the cuff, but you brought up something about you know, what people think about you.

Do you either of you get any people writing you nasty things or bullying, cyber bullying because of who you are online?

Alyssa Amoroso: I think I have like, I think I have hidden haters. They’re not loud. I know people obviously talk about it just because you would be, anyone that’s putting themselves out there that much is subjecting themselves to criticism. You know?

I have a great example. I never really post scandalous photos and I posted something today still not very scandalous, but just like showing my figure more and in the first 40 minutes of posting it, I could already see my back ends analytics that 50 or so people have DM’D it to someone else, like direct messaged it.to someone else.

Sherri Langburt: Oh my God.

Alyssa Amoroso: What do you think they’re saying? I don’t know. Hey, maybe they’re complimenting me and I’m thinking of a negative, but they’re also probably like, I could just hear the comments now. “Oh, do you think she edited this photo? Do you think she really looks like that?” But you know, “when did her waist get that way?”

Little do they know, I’ve been eating a gluten free. But you know, like I just, I don’t know these things, but you could assume then you leave it up for imagination and I just figured, you know what? Hey, they’re sending it to someone that’s more eyeballs on my content. So thank you for that extra impression.

That’s kind of what I mean. Like I just kind of brush it off. And people, if someone trolls me every few months, every time I put up a selfie and, and comment saying that I look like Caitlyn Jenner and I think it’s probably the same person because it’s just an, it’s a weird comment to get all the time. But other than that, I don’t really get much hate. It’s probably more silent.

Sherri Langburt: I mean, I don’t know how you, I don’t have the, I wouldn’t be strong enough, but I, kudos to you. Diana, does it happen to you at all?

Diana Elizabeth: It has before. Do you know when it does? It’s actually usually when a brand boosts my content on social for people that are not following me.

Sherri Langburt: Yeah, for sure. We see that.

Diana Elizabeth: So you know people are like, “why is this girl on my feed?” And then they’ll say things. I mean I’ve been insulted in the weirdest ways where, you know like, “Oh why does her leg look weird? Like, Oh my gosh.” You guys, I don’t even know. Like I got bit by 10 mosquitoes and I took that photo by the fire pit. Or like “Oh welcome to my house that’s the average American can’t afford.” And I’m looking at it and I’m like, I am standing against the wall with a painting in the back.

Like, this criticism just comes from people and I just ignore it or I delete it.

You know, I just can’t worry about it. I did a YouTube video and I did it for myself cause I did the DNA test and I just want to document it because I was like, let’s just see. I mean I look in the mirror every day. I’m pretty sure, I know I’m Asian, like it’s not like a surprise. But when it came out was like 0.01% I was possibly as Canarsie, Jewish, like European, I freaked out because I was so excited.

Like I would be excited if I was blue like I don’t even know like anything other than what I normally see every day. And wow man, the comments of me like self hating myself because I was excited. I was like you guys like everyone chill out. So I had to disable comments on that and I don’t even monitor anymore. I don’t care. I don’t even care to go through that inbox to approve comments, like it’s just, it’s a whole different thing. So I just try to look at a blind eye and I don’t know how the celebs do it. I don’t think I’m strong enough to handle it. And I’m a little, I kind of like my little influence where it’s small enough where I don’t feel like I’m getting too much criticism. But,

Alyssa Amoroso: And like Sherry, you said that, how do you handle it? Listen, we handle it on a very small scale.

Like I can handle this because to me it’s nothing. I mean I heard worse in high school. For me what would be bad is the people that go on the bachelor and they get it on every photo. And that to me is something where I’m like, how could you do it?

For us, it’s kind of just like we all talk bad about people in our everyday life anyway. You see someone and you’re like, “”Oh, what’s she wearing? You know? So I try not to take it too seriously because I’m like, it’s not personal, it’s just the way of the world unfortunately.

Sherri Langburt: Again, kudos to both you. And you know, all over the news now, is the whole, the poor Peloton woman who’s in that commercial. I feel horrible for her. But let’s talk about white listing. Like is that because it is, obviously everyone’s impacted by organic reach, you know it’s happening.

What do you think about white listing when the brands or agencies go in and boost your content? Do you think it’s impactful?

Alyssa Amoroso: I haven’t seen a huge, I’m sorry. I haven’t seen a huge effect from it necessarily.

Sherri Langburt: Okay. Okay. And Diana, what about you?

Diana Elizabeth: Well, when they boost it, I actually liked that so I don’t mind, I don’t really get that much crazy comment. But what I have used to my advantage is, especially Facebook, I, I’m starting to like Facebook more and more. Actually I have a different audience on Facebook than I do on Instagram. Some overlap, but not necessarily.

And so when a brand boosts my content on Facebook and people like it, I’m inviting them to like my page. And I have grown my Facebook page to a great scale because of those brands, boosting that content for me because of those people already like it and the kind of, so I absolutely like that’s really great for me because I can invite them on Instagram. I can’t really invite people to like my profile that’s up to them to then, click another button and look. So I actually hope that most brands would boost my content on Facebook so I can grow my Facebook page.

Sherri Langburt: Yeah, I feel like, look, Instagram is big, the biggest channel today. You know, obviously it shifts and there’s different needs. But, I think that Facebook definitely has different audiences and comes with a different value to it. So, talking about white listing is one thing that you know brands can do. But Alyssa, I’ll ask you first. You know, what else? You mentioned, kind of having longer term brand ambassadors’ programs, but …

What else can brands or marketers, agencies do to improve their working relationship with someone like you?

Alyssa Amoroso: So I think that there’s a few things that brands could do. Are you just talking more general or more specifically towards like whitelisting still?

Sherri Langburt: No, no more general. Like influencer marketing in general.

Alyssa Amoroso: I think that, and you have to, I know you know this. But other people I’ve come from. You know, I’ve hired influencers and run multi-million dollar influencer campaigns on the brand side and now I am an influencer. So I feel like I do have a pretty unique perspective and there’s a few things that I feel that work well. And one of those things is getting to know your influencer partner and not just judging the book by the cover and looking at their feed.

Like you have to really spend time with their feed. Are they engaging with their followers, stories? Are they commenting back to people? Do they have that repertoire with their audience that is impactful? A lot of times brands just want kind of the superficial and then they don’t understand why things don’t perform well for them. So I think that …

before you engage with influencers, you really have to spend time getting to know them and getting to know the way they’re interacting with their audience.

Another thing that I think is making sure that you’re not just going for the same cookie cutter girl that every single brand is hiring. Like we all know those like cookie cutter blonde girls that are on every campaign and getting all the work. Those people are maybe relatable in New York City but not everywhere in the world. So it’s working with people that reach everyone and reach diverse audiences. I think that’s important. And then also I think like I said a little bit about my car rental partnership.

I think it’s really important to have multi month campaigns, whether it be three months. I know when I pitch myself to campaigns, a lot of times I say a three post minimum. When I’m working with a brand, I want to post it multiple times. So my followers know I love that brand and they know that it’s something that is tried and true versus just having one off posts here and there. I just don’t think that will necessarily move the needle.

Sherri Langburt: No, that makes great. Yeah, I agree with all those points. Diana, what’s your take on it?

Diana Elizabeth: Yeah Alyssa. I think you have so many. I was like nodding as you were talking. I’m like yes. You know when Alyssa was talking I was like okay those are really good points. And I was like, okay, what can I add? Because she kind of hit everything. I think when marketers look for influencers is to keep in mind what exactly their goal is because there’s content creators and there’s influencers and there’s bloggers. And I mean, they all kind of overlap a little bit, but they all stand out in different ways.

And I think having the right expectations for what you’re hiring someone for. So even looking at their Instagram feed and seeing, okay, well maybe there’s whatever thing you don’t, you’re like, okay, they don’t get enough comments or likes and I understand the value of that. But if you’re looking at their content and its beautiful photography that you can now use on your marketing, on your feed because it’s not filtered to that influencers typical. Maybe you know each influencer kind of has their own editing style and maybe you can use that content and that’s value right there.

Sherri Langburt: I say that all the time. I say it all the time. It’s like when I worked in corporate America, we would pay thousands of dollars to have photographers. Well here all of a sudden you have this arsenal of photos that you could reshare and reuse. So yes.

Alyssa Amoroso: I was just going to say I think the issues brands run into is that influencers we want to charge for that content. So I think I agree. If I was a brand, I would try to sneak that into contracts the most I could to have had the implementation work as your content creators. So you’re not having as many large scale photo shoots or shooting as many in house campaigns. But yeah, I would totally, that’s what I always advise. I do PR still a little bit on the side and social media and I always advise my clients to take that route.

Diana Elizabeth: And I mean there’s also the influencers that are really influential and have a great, amazing following. But then they’re filtering, I mean it might fit, their style, but it looks like there’s pollution in the air. Do you know what I mean? Like I’m not trying to like say like it’s very gritty or like desaturated and it looks great on their feed and it obviously resonates with their following, but then that brand can’t, that doesn’t even look like the packaging. So they can’t even use that.

So you just need to know where those dollars that you’re spending. Do you just want to get in front of an audience? Great, get an influencer, do you want beautiful content? And then just pick someone who has clean images and don’t worry about the following. Do you want a blogger with great SEO? Because later on they’re going to be searching best filter, like, so these are all things that to take into account and not have the same expectations for each of those individuals.

Sherri Langburt: All great points. You know, I feel like from our end it’s like there’s just so many things when you’re managing a campaign that you have to think about and we always get the question, like the ROI, the ROI. It’s not just about how many impressions you got? Or you know, how many sales you got?

There’s the content, there’s, you even talk about blog content, there’s such value in it and everyone’s just right now focused so much on Instagram that we’re kind of forgetting the blog content, which I think is super valuable as well.

Alyssa, are you selling on Amazon? Are you not, pro, con, what do you think about the whole Amazon selling?

Alyssa Amoroso: I actually do partner with Amazon from time to time because my ultimate goal is to get into hosting on air and they have a, like Amazon live is what they call it, where they do some live shows. So I’ve, I’ve partnered with them on some video content. So, I’m a big proponent of using Amazon and I shop Amazon all the time. So, it’s really authentic.

I mean I just ordered a new iPhone cord literally an hour ago because mine broke. I’m always doing the two day shipping and I’m all about it. I think anywhere where you can get a affiliate commission on a link, why not? It’s just a little extra money in our pockets for work that we’re doing. And it’s not like it’s breaking the bank. I mean we’re making a few cents a sale, but only thing these days to get a little money. So I’m not, I’m not above it.

Sherri Langburt: Yeah, no there, there’s always been that question with affiliate, like a lot of influencers have been against it. We personally are about to launch an affiliate program but have always been like, no, we’re not going to do it because we want to pay the influencers. But you know, if there’s, if there’s opportunity, I think there’s opportunity.

Alyssa Amoroso: Let me just clarify.

I think there’s a huge difference between an Amazon affiliate and a small brands affiliate.

So for example, if a brand approaches me and says, “Hey, we want you to post X, Y, and Z and we don’t have budget, but you could make affiliate sales.” I’m not ever going to take that because the chances of my followers purchasing off that one link within that small time period, is very unlikely people take time to make purchases. I’ve learned.

But with Amazon, people are already shopping on Amazon anyway and you could link a plethora of things from home stuff to tech stuff to fashion, to beauty, whatever. So the profitability of selling is more likely, but when it comes to small brands, I would never take the affiliate route, personally.

Sherri Langburt: Very interesting.

Alyssa Amoroso: If that makes sense.

Sherri Langburt: Yeah. Diana, same. No.

Diana Elizabeth: Yeah, no I can’t. Well it’s just, I know my readership. I know they’ll click a lot. Totally. I know that I’m spending so much time. We create this content and it takes time. And I’d rather get paid for my time. And I think most marketers know that, doesn’t it have to touch somebody seven times until they feel comfortable making a purchase?

Sherri Langburt: I think they said the other day, 13 times. It’s up.

Diana Elizabeth: Great. Well, if any brands want to hire me and Alyssa for 13 times, we’ll sell that.

Alyssa Amoroso: And that’s exactly it. I mean, I know my followers, I mean I believe in my brands and I believe in my power of influence and I think that my followers definitely do buy in that and I just don’t think they buy right then and there all the time. And it’s like, I’m not going to hire a photographer, pay them, give up hours of my time to shoot content when I’m not going to make anything.

And even if people do buy, what am I getting 50% of the sale, the sale of a $20 item. Like it’s just, it doesn’t pay. And I understand why brands try to take that route, but I just don’t think, I think it’s really undervaluing the brand awareness that the influencer is giving you and they’re like hard earned time.

Diana Elizabeth: Well it’s not realistic. It’s also like if you did a commercial on TV and you’re like, please air this commercial until I make X amount of money, that this commercial cost me. It’s not realistic.

Sherri Langburt: Well, it’s like PR. I say when people say to me, what’s the sales? How many sales we’ve got? I’m like, well, if you get in the New York Times, it doesn’t mean you’re going to get a sale. Like it’s the same thing. Right.

So yeah, exactly. I mean I think, again, we stayed away, but I think that, for people emerging, but the other thing is can there be higher payouts? So can it be, for new, for newer influencers starting out, I think it might be a different story. And also if the payouts were higher because the 15% doesn’t necessarily work for you, you’re both at a different level than when you start out.

Diana Elizabeth: Totally.

Alyssa Amoroso: Yeah. As a marketer it’s worth a chance. I again, I see it from both sides. If I had a brand tomorrow, would I try to get away with it? Absolutely. But as an influencer, am I going to do it? No.

Sherri Langburt: It’s like both sides. So let me ask you, I feel like we’re in the midst of a like crisis. So I want to talk about this.

What do we think is going to happen with the Instagram likes, do you think it’s as big of a story as everyone’s making it. Diana, you tell us what your thoughts are.

Diana Elizabeth: I’ve been waiting for this day to happen and for a long time since they announced it, like last year, I’m like, when is this coming to the USA, guys?

When I just stepped back and I look at it, I am just hoping that maybe this levels the playing field in the sense of content creation and allowing people to like what they want to like and content creators to put out as much or as little amount of content without over-analyzing everything else that we’ve been analyzing over analyzing, before we post and after we post. So I’m looking forward to it.

My like numbers have not disappeared yet. I know, I have some friends who are like, “Oh my likes are down, likes are down.” And I, I joke with them and I’m like, “My likes are down, but my bank accounts up, guys.” Like it doesn’t matter. Like it’s going to, you’re going to make it work.

I’m not getting paid per like, I know it is important. I know brands kind of like that, but it’s also liking something doesn’t mean that somebody went out and bought it and liked it any more than somebody who saw it and didn’t like it. If it’s been seen, it’s been seen. And that is the goal of these campaigns.

Sherri Langburt: Interesting. Alyssa?

Alyssa Amoroso: Same thing. I mean, I’m happy to see it go because lately my impressions have been better than ever and my likes have been down. So it’s like, how does that make sense? You know, as, as an influencer, I don’t know if I think marketers know this, but I don’t know if the general public really realizes how much detailed analyzing goes into our numbers and our analytics. I mean I stare at my post every day thinking, let me just, this one will perform better. Maybe that one performed better. Why is this getting more likes? Why is this getting shared more time?

And it’s frustrating because you’re trying so hard to create content that you think will resonate and then maybe it is on the backend reaching more people. But it’s not showing that’s because the likes aren’t matching up. And I myself find myself scrolling through Instagram aimlessly looking at people’s pictures and admiring them but not giving them the like. And then sometimes I’ll catch myself and I’ll be like, okay, scroll back up and go like every single person’s photo because if they did this to you, you would be so upset.

Sherri Langburt: No, but, but the same thing sometimes. Sometimes I feel bad for someone who posted something and they didn’t get likes on it. Maybe I wish I could like 10 times because I feel bad. You know?

Alyssa Amoroso: Yes. Yes, exactly and it goes through my, it goes through my mind and I think the thing is we consume content so quickly. We scroll, we read, we love, we consume it, and we’re onto the next truth in split second. So like, you know so quickly that I just don’t think liking is the way we consume content anymore. And I think that’s fine. So I think to adapt with those changes is wonderful and it’s not going to hurt anyone’s business because they’re just going to request the information on the backend. So we’ll still have that in that insight. So it’s, it’s all of that.

Sherri Langburt: Okay. We’re gearing up, with a new decade, not just a new year. So Diana, you first, …

What are your predictions on influencer marketing for the new decade as 2020 approaches?

Diana Elizabeth: Oh gosh, I kind of wanted Alyssa to go first. Influencer marketing, oh my gosh. I thought about this and I’m like gosh if I knew, can somebody tell me? Because I’m trying to figure that out too, but I’m just looking at the patterns of what the past influencers have been doing and that’s product, workshop, consulting, other ways to make money because this is changing constantly.

And at the end of every year I’m always like, “Oh my gosh, am I going to survive another year?” And I don’t know why I think that. And I don’t know why the end of the year has marked that, but it does for me. And I just set new goals.

So I, because Instagram can take away likes, we’re going to maybe see a shift. We’ll see. I don’t know. I think I know brands are still going to pour money into influencer marketing. It’s there. The share is there. So, that’s what’s exciting is that I think there’s still work available. I do think that if you want longevity, you just have to, you can’t just join us and you know, think it’s going to be fast.

You have to really genuinely love every aspect of blogging, creating content and being an influencer.

And you know, I’m here for the long haul. I will, I’ll do this as long as I possibly can. And when it’s time, and things shift, I will shift with it. But I, I think my prediction is just that it’s still going to be around no matter what happens to Instagram. I mean maybe in five years I won’t be around, but it’s still going to be here next year.

Sherri Langburt: And we’ll go back to Twitter.

Alyssa Amoroso: I think we’re seeing an interesting moment right now where a lot of influencers are creating their own brand.

And when I say brands, I don’t mean branding themselves as a brand. I mean actually creating labels, fashion labels, candle labels, anything. I think that’s big. I think in the next 10 years we will see that be the way of the world. I mean we’ve seen how successful Something Navy’s collection was with Nordstrom. We see people like We Wore What selling out, the Kardashians are wearing her clothes and now we see Amazon doing it with The Drop, which is their influencer, their influencer collection that they’ve been doing for Amazon fashion.

So I think there’s so many possibilities, so many things. And I myself, I have a merchandise line where I sell clothes and I just think that that is the way of the world that’s going to be the next big thing.

And I don’t where it will take us, I mean I think we’re all getting older and our followers are getting older with us. So hopefully they’ll follow us. The brands will follow us through the ages and stages. But I think for the younger generation, there’s other platforms that they’ll really start to own. TikTok is becoming huge.

Sherri Langburt: Twitch.

That they are really big on Snapchat. So yeah, there’s all these different things. I mean it’s hard to predict and I agree. Like I will ride this wave as long as I can and I’m never going to stop. Even if, I need to get a secondary job to supplement my income. I mean I’m never stopping. You guys are stuck with me at this point.

Sherri Langburt: That’s good to know. We’re here to. We’re all here. We’re all here to stay. So you know, I always end with this question and it’s my signature question. So Diana, I’ll ask you first ….

Name, an influencer you love to follow, but hate to admit that you do.

Diana Elizabeth: I went through my who I follow because that’s trying to find somebody and I really couldn’t, like I don’t know how to answer this. I was following like things celebs say. I don’t know, like that count?

Alyssa Amoroso: Like comments by celebs.

Diana Elizabeth: Yeah, yeah, totally. But I don’t know, there’s nobody that I can think of that I’m like, it’d be embarrassing. Yeah. I just won’t follow them, I guess. I don’t know, I’m kind of like, I don’t really follow people to hate on them or to like spy on him. Like I either want to see them or be inspired by their feed or not. So sorry. I don’t really have a good answer.

Sherri Langburt: I mean mine is like, I follow like a Snoopy channel cause I’m obsessed with Snoopy, but I’m not going to like be proud to tell everyone. Like I’m sitting there, I have like, I follow seven Snoopy accounts, you know?

Diana Elizabeth: Oh, okay. Well I mean, I mean I don’t hate following him because I’m obsessed with him. But John Mayer, I mean I like to put alerts on him, every time he posts.

Sherri Langburt: Alyssa, who’s yours? If any.

Alyssa Amoroso: So I, okay, so this is my vice, I have a different Instagram account for my podcast. So The Publyssity Podcast on Instagram and I follow every reality star and I’m talking like people from Teen Mom, people from like Big Brother, Temptation Island, Love Islands, any reality show that you could think of. I follow them and I love to get on that account and just stalk the reality TV people because like that is my true addiction.

Like I really, to be quite honest, I always say this, I don’t really care to follow influencers which is hypocritical because I am one. But like I, it’s fun. But I don’t really care. I want to follow the reality TV people. I’m so much more invested in their life because I watched them on TV and I just go on that account sometimes at night in bed and I am just hardcore stalking and I love every minute of it.

Sherri Langburt: That’s hilarious. Thank you. Well ladies, thank you both love working with you, love seeing what you’re doing. We, Babbleboxx always is here for you and you know, good luck with everything that you’re doing and we’re excited to see what’s next for both of you.

Diana Elizabeth: Thank you so much for having us on.

Sherri Langburt: Thank you ladies.

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