Our guest today, Emerald-Jane Hunter is a four time Emmy award winning television producer turned entrepreneur. She is now the ringleader and founder of myWHY Agency, an integrated marketing firm based out of Chicago.
About Emerald-Jane Hunter
As the Ringleader of myWHY Agency, Emerald-Jane Hunter is a force to be reckoned with. A four-time Emmy Award-winning Producer and a master of all things media, storytelling and content creation, EJ has a background of 15 years working in TV and is now making a splash in the world of Integrated Marketing.
Born in Ghana, West Africa, she relocated to the US at the age of 19 and received her B.A. in Communications at Luther College in Iowa. In 2003 she moved to Chicago where she discovered her “WHY” was storytelling via television. From reality TV to live events, showrunning to talent booking EJ has done it all. She is an Emmy-Award winning Producer who’s Hollywood connection runs deep. EJ has brought Hollywood to Chicago numerous times through her many high-quality bookings, including stars such as Jennifer Hudson; Common; Cindy Crawford; Tony Goldwyn; Ne-Yo; Mike Tyson; Jane Lynch; Martha Stewart; Larry King; Cody Simpson; Sting; Boys II Men; and Barry Manilow just to name just a few.
Now as president of her own agency, EJ is finally living (and basking) in her WHY. She’s most fulfilled working with entrepreneurially minded brands and companies, managing strategic communications and crafting integrated marketing campaigns aimed at further elevating and amplifying brand voices–and of course, telling compelling, inspiring stories.
I understand you were born in Ghana, West Africa and you only came to the United States at the age of 19?
Emerald-Jane Hunter: Yes, I did. Yeah, I’ve been to me, I feel like I’ve been in this country for all my life, but yeah, I’ve only been here for 21 years. It’s been a whirlwind of a ride and I’m proud to be an immigrant that is able to contribute to some of the success immigrant stories of this country.
Sherri Langburt: That’s amazing. My parents are immigrants, so I through them can relate.
Can you tell us a little bit about your childhood and what it was like to come here in your late teenage years?
Emerald-Jane Hunter: Right. I had an interesting childhood. I’m an only child. My mother had me when she was 45 so she was pretty much at the height of her career when she had me and my mom worked on behalf of the country in education matters and so I was fortunate enough to have the exposure of travel through my mother. And so when it came to college, I went to boarding school in Ghana. I went to elementary, high school and a Catholic school in Ghana. I had the option of either studying in London or studying in South Africa or studying in the US and as a teenager, I thought, what would be the furthest I could be away from my family? And the United States, it was. But I had had the privilege of being able to visit some family members over the summers and so I was somewhat familiar with the US except I went to school in Iowa, in a town called Decorah, Iowa, town of 8,000 people. Iowa was never part of my American exposure, but I had a fabulous four years at Luther College in Decorah which was great.
How did you break into the entertainment industry?
Emerald-Jane Hunter: It sounds so great to tell the stories of triumph and success and we oftentimes forget to share the struggles that came with it. When you read my resume, it’s easy to think I went from Ghana to college in Iowa, had a degree and now I’m an Emmy award winning producer. It came with years of nothing. Years of hearing a lot of nos. The television industry is a very tough industry to break into so I had to do a lot of random odd front office type jobs that led me to a job that I thought was going to have me work the front desk of a production company. And it ended up being that the company was owned by the then director of the Oprah Winfrey Show. I didn’t know before getting that job. Getting that job I would say was the universe’s way of really giving me a foot in the door.
Through him. I got to see and experience a lot of the behind the scenes of that show and it really fueled and inspired my desire to really work hard and get into that TV world. Fast forward to now and after 15 years working on a mix of shows, I’ve done everything from the freelance, with American Idol, American Inventor, Bridezilla, it’s all the crazy reality show to, Stellar Awards, which is a gospel music awards show to game shows. And then my last stint was on a talk show, a live talk show on ABC in Chicago called Windy City Live. It took over the Oprah Show time slot when Oprah signed off the air. It’s been a tough 15 years, but the most fulfilling and rewarding. And I say, it’s great when you read those, but it doesn’t come without me knowing that I did pay my dues during this time to be able to now have the luxury of earning all those accolades.
When did you launch your agency? What was your reason for launching your own agency?
Emerald-Jane Hunter: While I was working in television, even though that was fine and dandy, I started feeling that there were parts of me that really wanted to do something that felt more impactful. And don’t get me wrong. My work in television was very impactful, but there were moments of it that was the superficial parts of TV. I wanted to do something that felt like my work was directly impacting people. And while I was working in TV, obviously one of my positions, I was a producing booker. Every pitch was coming through me, all the publicists, people trying to pitch brands, individuals, organizations, all of that. I quickly noticed a couple things that were missing in that. Pitches felt very automated. They felt very copy, paste, swap out names. I didn’t feel a passion behind the pitches that would make me want to get that guest on the show.
And so I decided, I’ve spent 15 years in this industry. Storytelling to me is that the crux of everything that we do, including marketing. If you can’t tell a good brand story and you can’t make it so appealing so consumers know that when they need that thing, this is the brand that they want to pick up and buy and use, then we’re missing the boat on something. And so I wanted to use my years to get out from the TV world and somewhat be on the ground, working directly with brands and individuals and nonprofit organizations and anybody that was doing purpose driven work. I, right now with my agency, we don’t just work with anybody. We’re very passionate about working with purpose driven brands, brands that are niched in the organic and natural food world, because I believe that our world really should be a place where everyone can afford organic and natural food. It shouldn’t be a luxury to eat well and healthy.
We also work with nonprofit organizations as well as game changing industry leaders. And for me, the decision on who we work with is always rooted in somebody who’s focused on putting a product or service out there and the money is not the first focus, but the money is the great byproduct of doing good, authentic work. And working with good people that have good intentions, because when you work for somebody, you can’t make a choice as to who you work with. But when you own your own agency, you can set those boundaries and it was important for me to ensure that I was spending the rest of my life and I’m young, but I still think that I don’t want to waste any second of my life working just for the money. I wanted to do work that felt good, that felt impactful, knowing that if I’m firmly rooted in my why, the rest will come and it really has been a true testament to it with my business.
What are some of the nonprofits you have worked with?
Emerald-Jane Hunter: We work with I Grow Chicago. I love this organization. We’ve worked with them for two years. It was founded by a young woman. Well, young woman called Robbin Carroll, and the focus of their work is in the Englewood community. In Chicago, the Englewood community is one of the poorest and a lot of residents there, it’s just stricken. If you mentioned Englewood to anybody that knows Chicago, folks won’t even want to drive past there. Stricken with violence and deep poverty. And the mission of I Grow Chicago is to help community members go from surviving to thriving. Really arming members of the community with the skills that they need to really take their community back.
It’s not an organization that’s gone into the neighborhoods and just focused on just making things look pretty and then walking away, but really ensuring that every resident that lives there is deeply entrenched in all the things that they do as a community to ensure that the kids that are growing up in there and even the adults that still live there are no longer just trying to survive day by day but they’re really thriving. And I love I Grow Chicago so much because the work they’re doing is so impactful. That community is only featured in the news when it’s violence and crime and things I Grow Chicago we’re able to really talk about positive things happening. And they’ve had a lot of good corporate support that’s really making a change. The founder was recently nominated for a CNN Hero.
And then we work with Marillac St. Vincent. That’s a 100 plus year old organization that serves underserved communities as well, with everything from birth to senior citizens and ensuring that communities are fighting against poverty. Those are the two nonprofits. I’m very selective and I know I can’t with nonprofit work, it’s not about profit margins, for me, it’s about you put in a ton of hours and a ton of work to make sure that, especially during COVID, they’re constantly in the news, they’re able to fundraise, they’re able to support community. Those are the two organizations that I’m committed to for now. We’ve done work with them for two years now.
What types of integrated marketing services do you offer?
Emerald-Jane Hunter: I think when people think of marketing and I have sensed that myself and so coming out of the TV world and getting into the PR world, I was very intentional about saying that my agency isn’t just a PR agency because everybody always defaults to PR. And it’s like, no. It’s an integrated marketing agency because I truly believe that in order to have significant growth in brand health and brand wealth, you need to be doing a few things that are talking to each other and working parallel with each other, to see that level of success that a brand truly needs. And that for me is more than just PR.
PR to me, is the icing on the cake. If you don’t know yourself as a brand, what it is that you want to see, what are your goals? Who do you want to reach? What’s the impact you want to make? Is your website set to support that? How’s your social media looking? Now in our world, it’s all about social media. And then obviously with my relationship with you guys, influencer marketing, that’s a big, big part of it too. Especially now during COVID, a lot of brands have had to pivot and say, “Let’s take advantage of that digital world and really blow things out to spread the brand word out.”
I believe that when you look at your brand and you’re looking to grow it, you can’t look at it as, let me just get a PR agency. And then PR will do it all for me because some people think, just put me on TV, get some articles and I’m good. Are you running social ads? Is your social media saying the same thing that your PR campaigns are saying? Are your influencers further amplifying what your PR campaign is saying? You know what I mean? You have to think beyond a linear lens and you have to really think broad and wide. And so there’s so many elements to it, but the parts that I enjoy is brand. We offer brand strategy. We’ve worked with a lot of brands that are new and they’re not sure how to position themselves. How do I talk about myself? How do I see who I am? Who am I targeting? How do I talk to the people that I’m targeting? You can’t talk to everybody the same way. You have to speak to different target audiences differently and meet them where they are.
We do that brand strategy messaging and positioning work for brands. We also then do the PR media relations portion. But that to me is more than just press release and pitching, but it’s really conceptualizing campaigns that can really move the needle for you. And then supporting those with social media. Managing your social media pages, ensuring that we’re amplifying the right content. With my background as a producer, content marketing and content creation is something we do because it’s all in the content. The right photography, the right videography.
Sherri Langburt: If you think about it, everything that you’re talking about is content. It might be a pretty picture, but it’s all content.
Emerald-Jane Hunter: It’s all content. It’s just one of those things where we offer the mix of services, where it’s been a journey to trying to educate brands that you need more than just one thing. And even if we’re not offering those services to you, it’s important that you work with an agency that understands how all of that works together so that even if you have other agency partners that are managing other aspects of it, we can all speak synergistically to each other.
How did your entertainment experience prepare you for this world of influencer marketing?
Emerald-Jane Hunter: Gosh, it did so much to prepare me. I think first of all, having the Rolodex and the ability to connect with the right people. In the television world, I booked easily over a 100 guests during my four plus, five years working in just talk show, not including all the other years I spent doing other things. At some point in my journey actually owned my own TV show for a few years on NBC locally, here in Chicago, an entertainment show. But what that did for me is a true understanding of that celebrity world. Because if you’re not in the world of it, it’s very extravagant and all these things. And for me, it’s just a lot of work, but the know how to be able to know exactly who to connect with, to connect with that celebrity, if that’s the way you’re going, but also understanding that it’s a business.
They have a job to do and you have a job to do and we have to meet in the middle and make sure that everyone’s happy and delivering and yeah. It just really opened my eyes to a lot of that. Contracts, agreements, all that it takes behind the scenes until you see the final product, which looks like no effort at all, went into it, but it’s really the Rolodex it’s unrivaled. Having that Rolodex and the personal relationships where I can go in my phone and literally look up a ton of celebrity names and instantly know exactly who their publicist is, if they haven’t fired their publicist.
Sherri Langburt: Oh my goodness. That must be very different. We deal in the world of agents sometimes with influencers, but not the publicist necessarily.
Can you tell us about your experience as a woman of color in the marketing industry?
Emerald-Jane Hunter: I think with a lot of industries, including this industry that we’re in, when you look at the numbers and the ratios, it just doesn’t quite match up. There’s not a lot of diversity in that, whether it’s female owned and then adding in BIPOC, so being of color as well. It’s been interesting, but one of the things that I’ve always said and pride myself on is I see a lot of these things as challenges because this is an industry that has always been what it’s always been and until it’s forced to put on a different lens and look at things a little bit differently, it’s always going to be very male, white male dominant. And I see this as a great challenge to be able to be part of the conversation. Conversations like this, that open the door and open the minds and educate on really what we are able to bring to the table.
And what we bring to the table and I see for myself as a woman of color in the marketing industry, is we used to have marketing and then multicultural marketing, well, marketing now is multicultural marketing and multicultural marketing is marketing because the marketplace is getting more and more multicultural than not. I think being able to have the understanding that you have to be communicating to people from all walks of life, whether it’s women or women of color or LGBTQ or veteran or whatever it is that comes up under the diversity umbrella, brands and companies need to start thinking that way. And you’re not automatically going to think that way, if you don’t have to live part of the shared experience.
And we all know that we live in an America that’s still very divided. It doesn’t matter what you say, or how things look, people who don’t look a certain way aren’t always comfortable crossing that bridge and saying, “Hey, let me connect with you on a personal level so I can get a better understanding of how you live, eat, pray, love all of that.” But I think that until that happens, it’s up to brands and companies to diversify agencies that they work with to ensure that they have the kind of representation at the table that is what the consumer looks like, if that makes sense. For me, I see it as a great opportunity and a great challenge to keep doing excellent work, but also infusing the benefits that come with having among your agency partner, a woman of color owned agency as part of your marketing team.
What are some things that you would recommend of making sure that we’re making progress?
Emerald-Jane Hunter: I think a lot of it is with the intention. Intentionality and I say that because we’re not going to move the needle just because we woke up one day and Black Lives Matter happened and everything happened and now it feels like it’s a movement and then suddenly, poof, everything is better. We have to set an intention and we have to act with intention. Literally, this means that it’s not going to be normal because it has not been the normal approach for years so why is it suddenly going to be normal if you don’t put some checks and balances in place?
And I think part of it has to be that we literally have to go that route of, let me make a list of things that I need to be mindful of. If there is an opportunity for agencies to bid on work, am I making sure that there’s a diverse enough pool that I’m interviewing? It’s not all just white male and then one woman and then maybe one person of color, because that to me is tokenism. You want to make sure that there’s a checklist that you’re almost using because it’s not going to be natural and normal to just wake up and know exactly how to do it and do it well. I think for me and what I advise brands that I work with, if they’re willing to listen is you have to be very intentional about all your actions and your actions have to be reflected upon your day to day activity.
You can’t put words out that sounds pretty, but on the day to day, you’re not doing things to move forward with that. When you’re looking at influencers, looking in the world that you work in, don’t just first of all, take stock of the influencers that you’ve worked with in the past. If your page has always been very white and I’m just saying that and then suddenly your page is just extremely diverse, that is so obvious and blatant that you’re just peppering it through just because. But you have to have some intentions behind it. And it’s not just about the diversity part. I’m going to get into the equity and inclusion part because I think a lot of people don’t understand that it’s not just diversity, it has to be equity and it has to be inclusion. All of those three elements have to work together.
With influencers, as you’re making your list, make a list of all the consumer touch points that you want to make. Let’s try to be authentic here. Who are the consumers you want to reach? They may not all necessarily be affording to buy your products, but you want them eventually to be consuming your products because at the end of the day, your why for creating this brand and being in business should be to ensure that each and every person has in their hands and in their pantries and in their freezers, healthy, wholesome food to consume because it’s better for them. That should be your why, period. That is the first start.
Second, looking at your pool of influencers, stop and say, “Is this diverse?” And is it diverse doesn’t mean everything that’s white and I got the one black person, so that’s great. That’s not diverse. And then also, so once you go through that checklist, it goes, okay, let’s look at equity and let’s look at inclusion. If there’s a minority influencer and across the board, and I always say Black, just because I’m Black so I can just speak to my race. But when I say minority, I truly mean, Black, brown, all races that are not Caucasian or white. Is once you go through that step, next is equity. If this part, are you paying equally across the board? And I know now influencers kind of sort of just quote whatever their prices are and that’s another thing I don’t know if there’s an FCC rule, there’s no structure in place for influencer pricing. I think I feel people, a lot of influencers just name their price.
Obviously it’s different when they’re working with a company like you, because then there are boundaries and parameters. But if you’re working individually with influencers, making sure that is there equity there for everyone? Across the board, all races, all color, the opportunity is equal for everybody. And you’re not trying to get a few on the cheap, just to say, “I check the box on my color, but I’m going to go for the super cheap, just because.” Make sure that the equity is fair across the board.
And then the inclusion part I already mentioned is the tokenism. I always worry about that. Don’t just have one and say, “I got my one. I’m good.” And then also, listen to them. Don’t just craft your campaign and say, “Here it is.” Craft the campaign and for the diversity part, run it by them. Do you think this feels authentic to your audience? Do you think this feels authentic to you as a consumer? If I came to you with this as a person of color, as a woman, as an LGBTQ, is this something that you can really support? So that it’s showing that you care and it’s not just a matter of getting them and to add to the numbers. And that’s the part of being intentional that’s so important here. You have to be intentional. It’s an action you have to take that’s not normal, but you have to force yourself to find a way to make it part of your process. That’s the only way to make change that’s going to stick.
Sherri Langburt: Yep. And to your point, thank you. That is so helpful for so many of us out there listening, myself included, my whole team because it has been a learning year and experience, but the fair pay part is hard because like you said it, sometimes influencers just throw out a price and sometimes we’re based on a client’s budget. And truthfully at the end of the day, it’s really based on the number of followers, the level of engagement. That’s how you kind of look or is there a very specific niche? We need architects in a certain area. Well, then they might get more pay because it’s such a specific niche or we’re looking for something very specific.
Emerald-Jane Hunter: Right. But I also think that part of the action that we can also be, or do is being an advocate. I’ve worked with certain influencers where an influencer will come back and they’ve got 200,000 followers and they say, “My fee is 50 bucks.”
Sherri Langburt: Right. We say we call them.
Emerald-Jane Hunter: Right. And I go, “What do you mean 50 bucks? Well, tell me what your engagement is. Let’s look at your stats.” When you look at it, you’re like, but somebody else has the same and maybe less engagement and they’re not. And I know it’s not our job, but it’s like, okay, okay. Your fee is 50 bucks sounds great. You know what? For this campaign, I’m going to offer you a 150 bucks. Sometimes you just do that. And that to me is where the equity is. And that is, I’m so passionate about that because, I was telling, I can’t remember. I was telling another friend of mine, she’s Jewish, but she’s white, but we’re good friends and we talk and I always joke and say, we’re thinking about partnering up on certain things. I always joke and say, “It’s going to be the Black and Jewish woman doing stuff.”
But I explain to her that as a Black woman, living in this culture, in this country, there are things that happen to us that is in the subconscious that we’re not even aware of, but it happens to us. One of it is the ability to speak up and lean in and stand up for ourselves. It doesn’t mean we don’t think about it. It doesn’t mean we don’t think it’s important, but the confidence that is needed to be able to bust through that door and say, “You know what? I deserve more than this.” It’s not been received quite the same. And so over the years, we’ve been conditioned to just be grateful for what you have and not fight it because you might lose everything. But other cultures and other races are taught, no, you stand up until you get what you want. That’s not a luxury or privilege that we have when you’re of color.
And so when we’re working and partnering with people and I told some of my great friends and I have the most amazing non-Black female partners in my agency, in my life and they get it. And so when I explained to them, they’re like, we get it EJ, you need to lean in. And because they are aware of it, they start to help me lean in. And that becomes that act that to me, is that solidarity. And we’re in this together where brands say, “We hear you, we support you. We’re in this together.” That is what that feeling should be. And not just, let me throw diversity on on my page. And it is what it is. If you see that something is under priced, offer them the right market price, because it’s the right thing to do. That is going to boost their confidence over time. They’re going to learn to lean in and ask for what they deserve.
Those are the things that are, it’s not and I like to keep reiterating this. It’s not normal and natural to just wake up and get all these things in your head. It becomes an intentional practice that’s also going to take time. When brands want to quickly pivot and make a change, it’s like, let’s not rush it. We want to do it right. Take your time and do it right.
But one of the things we do as an agency and I tell this to all my brands is, “You’re fortunate. It’s not just great that we get to work together because I’m beyond passionate about the work that I do. And I will never stop until we win. But also having me and my team as authenticity and accountability partners so that any campaign you work on, any messaging, whether it’s PR or not, whether it’s images on your website or not, we’re more than happy to be the additional lens that see through these things to make sure that it comes off as authentic.” Because cancel culture is so real. The last thing you want to do is have your heart be in the right place, but then your actions communicate otherwise and now you have a PR nightmare.
Sherri Langburt: Well, I’ll be coming to you if and when we have those.
Anytime. I am so passionate about that. It’s like, if I can’t do that, then what’s my purpose being in this industry?
Sherri Langburt: Coming from you, it’s the trust that I need to go forward because I might have, or our agency or other agencies out there, I think everyone’s, not everyone, but we’re trying to have the right intentions. And it’s just, you just don’t know. That’s great for you to put that out there for everyone. I guess it’s been a crazy year with COVID, looking to the next topic.
What are some key takeaways you think from 2020 for marketers, for influencers and for people like you and I, who are entrepreneurs?
Emerald-Jane Hunter: Take everything that 2020 has taught you seriously. 2020 I believe is a year that’s meant to have us pause and really take stock of what should matter and is important. And if we can take it seriously and find ways to make a change and use these lessons to prepare us into 2021 and beyond, we’ll be okay. But let’s not, I think a lot of us are ready to just write off 2020. It’s a crazy year, my God I can’t wait for it to be over as though January 1, 2021, suddenly COVID is gone and everything in the world is great. No. There’s something about this year that came, everything that happened this year had a purpose and there’s a reason for everything and we need to make sure that we take the lessons from it. And I think for me personally, I think the lessons have been that we’ve been asleep at the wheel for too long.
And it’s not just about race or color. It’s just caring about each other. Talk about what would make us suddenly care so much about the importance of a hug? What would make you care so much about the importance of seeing your family and sitting at the table and talking and going out to restaurants and dining together and friendships and relationships? A pandemic needed to happen to really make us rethink what is important in life. And I think we should take these lessons and infuse them in all of our marketing efforts, because it’s the storytelling of it. And the brands that stood the test of time, have a story and a responsibility. How they made it through should be part of their 2021 campaigns. As we’re building 2021 messaging and campaigns, it’s always about, for me, you survived. Do you know how many companies didn’t? What you survive? And why are you still standing?
And let’s share a bit of that positive, that thing, that tenacity of purpose that you had and why that commitment to your consumers was so important to you that you could break and fold, but you knew you had a bigger, better calling. 2020 is the most important pivotal year for the next decade. And I think if any marketers miss that, you’ve completely missed what this entire last 12 months was about.
Sherri Langburt: Yeah. Thank you. I could feel your passion through this call. It’s amazing. I’m going to end with my final question.
Name an influencer you love to follow, but hate to admit that you do.
Emerald-Jane Hunter: Cardi B. I don’t even know if she’s an influencer, but I guess for the term influencer she is. But I tell my teenage daughter not to follow her.
But you know what it is? When I follow a lot of influencers for different reasons. And I follow because I believe that no matter what the superficial part of influencer marketing and social media is, there is a struggle and a pain and a truth that every single human being suffers through, regardless of how much money you have or how much fame you have. I follow people like her and others really to find the human aspect of things. She’ll post about her cars and her shoes and all of that but it’s like, she’s a mom and she has a daughter and she’ll post some of the regular struggles of having a daughter. It’s like Cardi B’s daughter’s not perfect. And her daughter’s still throwing tantrums like everybody else’s daughter or her marriage issues or divorce or whatever that is. I follow her for more than that. And I also followed her, I think with some of the politics and hearing, because often in our world, we look at somebody like that and we’re quick to judge.
I never knew who she was. I never watched any of the reality shows that she was in or any of that stuff. I don’t know her history. I just heard of her and suddenly she made a song and suddenly to me, I’m like blank, she’s famous. I’m like, who is this? Look at her background and nothing about her background says she should be who she is now, but I give her so much respect because she found a way to push through whether it’s what I agree with or not. Like I said, I blocked. I took my daughter’s phone and blocked everybody that I thought, I don’t need you to be seeing these things. But there’s something to be said about going from rags to riches and triumph and beating all odds and living the dream. But also she does chime in with her voice on some issues that I think she’s passionate about.
And she may not always be the most eloquent sounding or whatever it is. But I tell that she’s somebody with a heart who cares about people at the end of the day. And she can half the difference between her glam life and showing all those things off versus having a serious conversation about issues in our world and in our country that really affect us. Yeah, I follow a lot of influencers for many reasons. I never follow just to follow or just for the numbers, or I always follow to find what makes this person human, because we’re all human. I think consumers forget that celeb influencers are also human beings. They bleed like we do, they cry, they have pain, they have joy, they have tears. But yeah, Cardi B would be one that I would say. And to be honest, I’m not ashamed to admit it, but I think it’s just not one that someone would assume I’m really like.
Sherri Langburt: Thank you so much. You are just inspiration and thank you for your leadership and for all your passion. And please don’t be a stranger. Let’s stay in touch and hopefully we can meet in person soon.
Yes. Thank you so much, Sherri. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this.